10:04:39 From Alec Rickard to Angie Logan(Privately) : Hi there 10:04:49 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Hello! 10:04:50 From Alec Rickard to Sue May(Privately) : Hi 10:04:55 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Anyone else from UoP online? 10:05:15 From Sue May to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Hi this was a good idea to join thanks for the link 10:05:26 From Gahl Sela : only problem with what I have is that it is not in english 10:05:36 From Michael : no problem if not in english 10:05:39 From Angie Logan : We already use videos but they are of local patients and cannot share online. 10:06:03 From Michael : bit.ly/Practicalskillsonline 10:07:44 From Alec Rickard : We have some practical skills videos and will see if we can dd (some are a bit old as originally recorded on a tape video camera!) 10:07:51 From User : yes 10:07:51 From Victoria Park : No 10:07:52 From António Alves Lopes : no 10:07:53 From Michael : i can't 10:07:55 From Gert Værge Østergaard : no 10:07:55 From Adnil Titus : no 10:07:56 From Gahl Sela : no 10:07:56 From Michael Cole : no 10:08:00 From Sue Leach : No 10:08:01 From David Kelly : No 10:08:03 From Gahl Sela : you need to share screen 10:09:06 From Roma Forbes : The google doc requires links to public videos? Such as the great Griffith Uni ones. I have videos that are online but as files, happy to share (shared one on the other google doc). 10:09:29 From Gert Værge Østergaard : yes hes gone 10:09:30 From gchriste : me too 10:09:35 From Adnil Titus : Me too 10:09:35 From User : for me 10:09:44 From Gahl Sela : invite him back 10:10:42 From Gahl Sela : We are not sure when we will be able to do practical with the students 10:10:50 From Dominic Fisher : teaching AND assessing practical skills 10:11:25 From Lucy Gardiner : can't hear you Ben 10:11:31 From Michael Cole : might have to turn off your video Ben 9bandwidth) 10:11:34 From Adnil Titus : It seems like we lost Ben again 10:11:38 From Gert Værge Østergaard : maybe try without video, Ben... Cant hear you 10:12:00 From Angie Logan : Perhaps for the next session we should prepare for technical glitches and have co-hosts and share agenda. 10:12:03 From Gert Værge Østergaard : yes 10:12:03 From gchriste : yes 10:12:04 From Kelly Walker : It sometimes works better if everyone keeps their video and off. 10:12:04 From yonca : yes 10:12:05 From User : yes 10:12:06 From Gahl Sela : yes 10:12:09 From Angie Logan : Yes :-) 10:12:14 From Claire Staniland : yes 10:12:19 From Claire Staniland : ben needs to turn his video off 10:12:20 From Adnil Titus : Yes 10:12:33 From marisa.mackenzie@mindmaze.ch : If people turn off videos it could help the zoom connection 10:13:07 From Gahl Sela : sort of 10:13:09 From Michael Cole : yes 10:13:16 From Ash : We have :) 10:13:24 From jenna : in planning to do this in 2 weeks. 10:13:29 From Marianne Unger : we have too 10:13:33 From Louisa Remedios : can you stop sharing your screen so we can see the community again 10:13:45 From Louisa Remedios : Thanks 10:13:55 From Claire Staniland : you just minimise the poll 10:14:02 From Elizabeth Sargent : I’ve just started with recording videos of myself performing techniques on a family member and uploading them to our teaching platform. 10:14:09 From Alec Rickard : You should be able to move the poll 10:14:30 From Adnil Titus : I have used Videos, as an adjunct - not as the main learning opportunity 10:15:59 From Adnil Titus : yes 10:16:00 From Claire Staniland : yes 10:16:00 From jenna : yes 10:16:04 From Sue Leach : yes 10:16:24 From User : we have video library with all techniques done individually for manual therapies. This is for them to use in their own time as an adjunct 10:16:47 From Louisa Remedios : WE are trying - video demonstration followed by small group discussion and mental rehearsal as a step towards building skills. 10:19:07 From Hilla Sarig : Thanks for sharing, I have just joined, I'm Hilla Bahat, from the physio Dpt. at the Haifa Uni, Israel. 10:19:14 From Gahl Sela : We have a scripted edited 10:19:18 From Adnil Titus : Yes 10:19:20 From Sue Leach : yes 10:19:20 From jenna : yes 10:20:09 From Angie Logan : Peer assessed? 10:21:01 From Gahl Sela : Peer assessed? Can you send a peer assessment form 10:21:29 From Claire Staniland : we have done similar with pebblepad workbooks where students upload videos and get feedback from tutors... we haven't used this in current situation as they would have been taught face to face and also as Marianne says they may not have nayone to demo on 10:21:35 From Angie Logan : Do you moderate the peer assessment? If so, how? If you could put something on Google shared drive that would be great. 10:21:49 From Louisa Remedios : Is there an ethical issue with this? 10:21:49 From Tamara : Thanks Marianne - good ideas 10:22:24 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Could possibly consider peer review for 3rd years??? 10:22:27 From Marianne Unger : @angie I do moderate...will gladly share later 10:23:53 From Ben Ellis : Are the videos usually recorded at home or in a practical lab setting? 10:23:56 From Alec Rickard to Angie Logan(Privately) : Yes, although the current ones don't really need ti know we've made adjustements for the cancelled OSCE already. 10:24:08 From Pam : would like to share an idea about how to use videos for teaching 10:24:29 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Ah okay. I just didn't think it would be appropriate for 1st years, and I don't know the 2nd years yet! 10:26:05 From aspar : I am guessing that it will be difficult for us to record videos as I know that we don't have access to our practical labs for the duration. 10:26:31 From aspar : What is being discussed sounds like a way to do formative assessment? 10:26:40 From Elizabeth Sargent : Does anyone have a recommendation for how students can demonstrate skills when they live alone? 10:26:41 From Tamara : thanks Pam 10:26:42 From Ben Ellis : Is there an opportunity to engage students in the problem solving that clinicians are having to do currently through a combination of watching exemplar videos, then thinking what aspects of an assessment they could safely and effectively do a) via video call or b) in their own home? 10:27:39 From Alec Rickard : @aspar: when needs must. Community teams have to do therapy in houses. I had the lucky foresight to grab a video camera, tripod and folding couch before my uni shut down! 10:27:44 From Claire Staniland : this is kind of how we have started ben. We share videos and discuss in a zoom conference like this 10:28:04 From Hilla Sarig : We have stopped here in Israel clinical placements, due to national restrictions, what is the condition in your countries? 10:28:05 From Kristen Andrews : thanks Pam! 10:28:09 From aspar : I like that idea Claire 10:28:15 From Dominic Fisher : recorded live call may be an idea so it can be ditributed to the entire cohort and not ony benefit the individual student's feedback? 10:28:24 From jenna : yes, we changed the 'setting' of our neuro viva to the home setting and asked them to record exercises using every day settings in the home. 10:28:59 From aspar : Nice one! 10:30:05 From Claire Staniland : we have also done activities where they look at the evidence for techniques and discuss that on zoom 10:30:30 From Claire Staniland : case studies/ group presentations uploaded to google communities 10:30:31 From Michael Cole : Inclusivity is an issue with home videos - some students might not have access to people to practice on (particularly isolating or estranged young people), and also access to suitable wifi/devices/location etc 10:30:43 From Roma Forbes : Yes Ben - a good idea we try to use is embedding a small, existing practical video that may already exist into a 'patient case' so that the student can go on to do use their clinical reasoning to work out what other assessment they would do and management 10:30:50 From Louisa Remedios : opportunity for research on mental rehearsal and how students learn at home with no-one to practice on? 10:32:12 From Claire Staniland : for now, we are doing all the clinical reasoning and evidence based practice and keeping a list of practical techniques to do when they come back 10:32:13 From Jill Morgan : I completely agree with Michael about inclusivity. There are a hidden population of students who are increasingly isolated by the circumstances. Some do not have any idea how to approach this new form of learning. Some are sick and unable to keep up. Some are caring for others. It's a real quandry. 10:32:20 From jenna : we have taken the need for a participant or model out. The student demonstrates exercises by themselves and discuss the clinical reasoning for their chosen interventions. The videos are pre-recorded and discussed later to reduce the need for a better internet connection 10:32:40 From jenna : but also totally agree about challenging circumstances now caring etc 10:33:07 From Lucy Gardiner : when appropriate could I ask a question to the group about anyone supporting clinical practice during this crisis and using as learning material for our students? perhaps most relevant to cardio-resp 10:34:14 From Roma Forbes : Ash totally agree 10:34:18 From Claire Staniland : that's what we are doing Ash 10:34:21 From Michael Cole : absolutely Ash 10:34:25 From Roma Forbes : That's what we are trying at UQ 10:34:28 From Jill Morgan : Agree Ash 10:34:30 From Ben Ellis : 100% agree 10:34:30 From Marianne Unger : Totally agree ASh 10:34:33 From Gert Værge Østergaard : very good point, Ash! 10:34:53 From Louisa Remedios : interesting and also - good chance to practice some of their surface anatomy where it is possible to palpate on themselves. 10:34:57 From Marianne Unger : Exercise is another 'trchnique students can demonstrate on their own 10:35:12 From Claire Staniland : you can do clinical reasoning, evidence based practice around the skills 10:35:14 From Ben Ellis : If we think about the bigger picture, does this give us an opportunity to shift the focus of some of our teaching in the longer term 10:35:26 From Adnil Titus : Good point Ash...I think exposing them to a video of the technique online, but get them to do when we are back to do some hands on teaching at a later stage. 10:36:18 From Jill Morgan : I think the issue with the non-completion is the key one Michael. The pressures to produce the next workforce in time are huge. Maybe we need to revisit what the practical skills they will need actually are? 10:36:20 From Marilyn Webster : I think building their 'soft skills' is very important especially as telephysio is growing rapidly 10:36:32 From Michael Cole : yes ben - good practice developed, and enhancing future contingencies for a second wave next year 10:36:49 From Ben Ellis : People in clinical practice - do you think there are opportunities here to get patient consent to record remote assessments as teaching resources? 10:37:24 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Once this is over, perhaps we have an opportunity to think about how the new programme is delivered. Having videos and online resources, seminars for clinical reasoning etc. 10:37:24 From Michael Cole : with robust informed consent recorded, don’t see why not? 10:38:20 From Kristen Andrews : We are thinking the same Jill, being forced a littel to really think about the outcomes of our subjects and if they can be met in other ways, acknolwedging that we are a practical course and there is the element of safety of course. 10:38:22 From aspar : That sounds really helpful 10:38:24 From Matt Zasada : We redesigned our MSK delivery a few years ago using a threshold concepts model - we didn't change the number of hours, but our placement grades went up by just under a grade. Presents an opportunity to delay prac, but have the understanding to build on 10:38:58 From Jane Ashbrook : I've asked my local drama group to record some subjective scripts of patient stories for students to watch and discuss clinical reasoning, a bit like a facetime consultation...it's actually really useful! 10:39:00 From Elizabeth Sargent : Matt, can you tell us more about that? 10:39:18 From Kristen Andrews : Yes- Matt, woudl love to hear more about the threshold concepts model 10:39:23 From Roma Forbes : Agree, as we are already seeing in private practice moving online! 10:39:34 From aspar : RE pt consultations - I think you are right that patients may change the way that they access and use services. 10:39:37 From Pam : would also like to comment on action learning and reflective practice in relation to what Ash was saying 10:40:22 From Ash : Jane ...GREAT idea! 10:40:29 From aspar : We have international students that are remaining her in halls and others that have gone home and are isolated 10:42:19 From dd2 : Do you have something published about how you integrated the threshold concepts - would be very useful! 10:42:50 From Claire Staniland : in our pre reg course we use enquiry based learning and I think this will still work online, if we omit the practical sessions and concentrate on evidence and reasoning 10:42:51 From Michael Cole : similar approach at our uni (Sports Therapy) 10:43:12 From Jane Ashbrook : I'm at Manchester Met Matt and our delivery is very similar. Thinking about similar process to delay practical...don't think there's a magic practical virtual replacement! 10:43:12 From Michael Cole : not as organised as yourselves though! :-) 10:43:39 From Hazel : We have developed a project whereby a local chronic lung disease support group come to the University to undertake 'on-going' pulmonary rehab, delivered by a clinician and student volunteers. Naturally this is no longer taking place but we are working on delivering exercise to people in their homes on line, using Facebook live streaming. 10:43:43 From Alec Rickard : CAn I ask about the uplift of placement grades, please? 10:43:44 From aspar : Listening you Matt - what you say has certainly crossed my mind in relation to picking out the theory base and then revisiting it to do the skills. 10:44:28 From Michael Cole : some programmes opting to shift practical into the following year…I’m doing similar to with a condensed practical fortnight in September to tie up loose ends as it were. Not perfect, but lack of other options 10:45:20 From Jane Ashbrook : I agree with Ben, I've put our MACP related masters on hold to avoid having to do the theory again...for that particular unit it's so integrated 10:45:37 From Ash : That would be my view Jane 10:46:17 From Pam : asynchronous can be used to promote interaction 10:47:01 From Seth O'Neill : asynchronous learning is working well for us at present 10:47:19 From Seth O'Neill : Using Wikis, vids etc at present 10:48:04 From Alec Rickard : Re: Matt's reporting of placement grades being uplifted, isn't this a significant problem? Placement grades are traditionally higher than uni-based grades and I think this disparity was looked at nationally some years ago. 10:49:24 From Pam : would love to add something to using the imperfect way to improve the quality of what we do 10:50:19 From Claire Staniland : we are using zoom, google apps and google communities for interaction 10:50:49 From Hazel : Hi Claire, we're using MIcrosoft Teams in the main 10:51:17 From Angie Logan : We have good links, but at present we would not want to add to the pressure clinicians are already under by asking for videos. 10:51:18 From Seth O'Neill : Blackboard, panopto, zoom, teams and anything else we can 10:51:32 From Angie Logan : Most clinicians are being redeployed to different areas and roles at the moment. 10:52:16 From Jane Ashbrook : At the moment our local clinicians are very stressed and focussed on upskilling and are mostly wanting to put students on hold. St Emlyn's is a virtual ED set up from Central Manchester and I'm sure there's others out there, might be worth checking out? 10:52:29 From aspar : Big blue button is supposed to be good too 10:52:31 From Hazel : I agree Angie, I'm going to wait until I get out there, and see what the possibilites are, I don't want to film really poor and difficult clinical situations 10:52:40 From Jill Morgan : I'd like to try and set up some virtual clinical educators to try and help out. There is a workforce, unable to work, particularly in MSK who I'd like to approach to help out 10:52:42 From aspar : We are using teams too - but I think that this is better for a class discussion and its easier to share your page 10:53:03 From Matt Zasada : Has anyone spoken with Physiopedia as a repository? 10:53:05 From Michael Cole : Microsoft Teams, Stream, Onenote, Sway mainly 10:53:08 From Matt Zasada : Yes please Lucy! 10:53:59 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : I've seen a few people online here today about Big Blue Button, but also seen references to it elsewhere online. May be worth looking at for our teaching. 10:54:27 From Gert Værge Østergaard : Was it Rachel Moses or? 10:54:27 From Alec Rickard to Angie Logan(Privately) : Yes, I don't know it 10:54:27 From Lucy Gardiner : I've collated some links for COVID-19 respiratory resources which I've shared with students - happy to put on the google drive if helpful 10:54:31 From aspar : Thank you Ash - that is really helpful 10:54:52 From Jane Ashbrook : Seth, same at MMU 10:54:56 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : We can let Kath know about Rachel Moses videos and the Respiratory academy as these may be useful for PHY114. 10:55:08 From cacarus : @rachaelmoses 10:55:13 From Gert Værge Østergaard : thanks 10:55:19 From Hazel : I share your pain Lucy! 10:55:31 From aspar : I need to go - will the script by available? 10:55:39 From Alec Rickard : Try not to be frustrated about not helping, as by educating the future workforce, YOU ARE helping! 10:55:46 From Michael : Keep them on private YouTube channels? 10:55:55 From Claire Staniland : you tube channel, google drive 10:55:58 From Michael : Let Google carry the cost of the bandwidth 10:56:00 From Lucy Gardiner : Thanks Alec! 10:56:01 From jenna : for uploading videos "wetransfer" is very helpful it compresses them and creates a link 10:56:09 From Marilyn Webster : we use Vimeo for many of our videos 10:56:11 From Marianne Unger : @Elizabeth - YouTube - 10:56:20 From Gahl Sela : I have loaded the videos to the moodle 10:56:25 From Jane Ashbrook : Exactly Lucy, you are invaluable at educating the future workforce xx 10:56:46 From Matt Zasada : Our bandwidth issue is at the students end so platform doesn't matter :-/ 10:56:54 From Pam : agree Wetransfer is great 10:56:57 From Lucy Gardiner : thanks Jane! 10:56:59 From Marianne Unger : convert videos to smaller video using e.g. Format Factory 10:57:22 From David Kelly : We use vimeo, also ICE-learning videos (not our own) 10:57:31 From Alec Rickard to Angie Logan(Privately) : Yes, I'm struggling to keep track of some of this as answering emails and keeping kids in check as Sine out doing patient visits. 10:57:44 From Marianne Unger : if using Office 365 - use video channel - accessible to all students 10:57:47 From Matt Zasada : This is probably the best one to start with... 10:58:10 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : Crickyey! That's multi tasking!!! I've made some notes for things that would be useful resources or things to discuss :-) 10:58:37 From Michael : @Matt Ben and I chatted to Sarah about her work in threshold concepts: http://inbeta.uwc.ac.za/2018/05/09/6-new-paradigms-for-physio-education/ 10:58:54 From Alec Rickard to Angie Logan(Privately) : Thats the new normal (although was often the old!). 10:59:34 From Jane Ashbrook : Thanks Matt 11:00:01 From Sue May : Thank you Everyone 11:00:15 From Matt Zasada : Thanks for organising this Ben, got to bail out now, but will keep an eye on the googledoc - lots of great ideas and I hope to meet lots of you on the other side! :) 11:00:17 From aspar : One thing that we are doing are workbooks... these include youtube clips to view and then to try to practice techniques if possible or to note learning points..... So far feedback is positive. 11:00:28 From Sue May : I think that we do have lot to offer and can work together to deliver this and promote Physio! 11:00:47 From aspar : Byee everyone - Stay safe! 11:01:10 From Michael Cole : thanks Ben and everyone…I need to leave to join another meeting. best wishes all 11:01:27 From Jane Ashbrook : I really like this idea....makes a practical a much more explorative and critical exercise 11:01:33 From Jill Morgan : I think we also need to be mindful of the 'less is more' issue to. We are all adjusting to the changing conditions on our lives. That is hard to deal with. Our students could easily be overloaded by content. 11:02:05 From Elizabeth Sargent : Jill is absolutely right! 11:02:06 From Michael : me please 11:02:07 From cacarus : bye everyone, gret session, not used Zoom before but it was great, thanks, stay safe all 11:02:15 From Jane Ashbrook : yes Jill!! 11:02:30 From Dominic Fisher : Assessment?? 11:02:33 From cacarus : and us as lecturers 11:02:41 From Jane Ashbrook : Skype anxiety is rife in Manchetsre!! 11:02:42 From Claire Staniland : yes Jill- this is what I have been harping on about! 11:02:44 From Michael : @dominic we'll discuss in the next session 11:02:49 From Dominic Fisher : Ta 11:02:53 From Adnil Titus : Good point Ash...and even the students 11:03:00 From Alec Rickard to Lucy Gardiner(Privately) : Remind yourself, that you are just one, but if 50-60 (or whatever cohort size) physio can be made available to the NHS shortly and in subsequent years, that is the ulitmate aim! Take care 11:03:06 From Kristen Andrews : Yes ash, this has been a big consideration for us in aus, especially with the distances and rurality of some of our students. Asynchronous becomes the best option for us we think at this stage 11:03:26 From Jessica Lees : Thank you Ben and Michael for organising this terrific session ! 11:03:40 From Gahl Sela : THANK YOU!!!! 11:03:43 From Jon Room : Thanks all 11:03:52 From Claire Staniland : thanks :-) 11:03:57 From Hazel : Thanks all, some very helpful ideas :-) 11:04:00 From User : Thanks guys keep safe 11:04:07 From Claire Staniland : can you share your website? 11:04:09 From Manar Jaber : Thank you all 11:04:10 From Jill Morgan : Thanks all - nice to put more faces to Twitter handles :) 11:04:19 From Angie Logan to Alec Rickard(Privately) : I've just messaged Ben asking if we can have a session like this for placements. 11:04:20 From Louisa Remedios : Is this a good time to ask the students about their expereince of this approach to learning? 11:04:20 From Vanessa Haycock : thanks everyone, very helpful. 11:04:20 From David Kelly : Thanks Ben and Michael, all. 11:04:23 From Tandy Hastings-Ison : Brilliant ideas and discussion, thanks so much 11:04:31 From Seth O'Neill : :-) 11:04:37 From Alec Rickard : I have saved the Chat and can send to you, Ben. 11:04:40 From yonca : Thanks all :) 11:04:40 From Pam : thanks one and all 11:04:46 From Roma Forbes : Thanks!!! 11:04:46 From Jane Ashbrook : thanks 11:04:46 From Adnil Titus : Thank you for discussing the practical things to consider everyone. This was extremely helpful. Please will you let us know for any other sessions. It also makes one realise that you are not alone. We're literally all in this together... 11:04:47 From Elizabeth Sargent : Thank you so much. This has been helpful. 11:04:47 From jenna : thank you! 11:04:50 From Alec Rickard : Thanks everyone 11:04:50 From Sue Leach : Thank you! 11:04:52 From Marianne Unger : Thanks Ben and Michael - great initiative... will contribute as we develope! :) 11:04:53 From Angie Logan : Thank you very much for organising! 11:04:55 From Louisa Remedios : Thanks everyone 11:04:56 From Ash : Thanks everyone. Very useful, I've picked up some great stuff from today